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It is a show called "Angel", literally about Angel?

yes but you can fully ignore it. Its pretty much NOT connected to BTVS itself and is infinitely worse. The only meaning it has is to set up a certain storyline that is latter followed in Buffy comic books. Otherwise you can pretty much skip the whole Angel tv show altogether :) 

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also a small note: according to whedon in interviews and stuff, The Buffy storyline and the scoobies storyline of the season 3 first episode does NOT happen simultaneously.  The school start and scoobie stuff happens few weeks before Buffy's story in san francisco.

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It was that S4 "Cordelia is evil - Oh noes, wait, she is just possesed - Oh noes world peace!". It was one of the lamest plots ever to be shown on TV-.- And add to that, Connor had a big role in it, whom was horrible.

I think this is a plot that got Angel the axe. I just dont get this plot as much as I love this show.
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 I think this is a plot that got Angel the axe.

Everything in ATS was lame. The series only served the purpose to set up on what would be buffy comic books. As far as I am concerned ATS does NOT exist in the main timeline. I personally just blank out it ever having existed from my mind. 

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I don't know if any of you guys noticed, but i was thinking the other day, in tvd a lot of people start ' evil ' or flawed, except for elena (leading lady) and then later on they are wussyfied :p or at least they always show a softer side. In btvs it's completly the opposite (wich is a lot more realistic if you think about it) almost everyone starts of really innocent including the leading lady and then later on, different sides of the characters are shown, also as the seasons go on, the characters develop from everything they went through. I for example was really shocked by GILES, i was so shocked about that ep in S2 about him and his friends and that demon ! I had the same reaction as Buffy ! Here was this wise, british, disciplined man who had a dark side. And then Buffy said something like: It's just hard to think your HUMAN. And this is probably how every person in real life is too. (Btw loved giles, also that ep in S3 with the band candy was hilarious) and as much as i love tvd, they still fail to show us that 'human' side of elena that doesn't always have to be nice or good. If you think about it and i know you guys don't like her character but Bonnie is the ONLY one that showed ' normal ' reactions to stuff that happend ( except when she wanted to lit damon on fire but i understand that it was coming from things that happend in the past). She is also the only one that doesn't seem to forgive in a blink of an eye and doesn't forget everything that happend in the past. You got to give her that.
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Yes, its pretty much a given fact that 99% of BTVS characters are realisticc gray morality people. Even Buffy(ESPECIALLY BUFFY) herself has some VERY dark character traits and motivations one woul dnot find in usual main character and EVERY character is fallible and capable of very bad stuff. Not because ofsome affliction, not becuase of some evil spell. Because they are human. Fallible. Fragile. 


IMO, a lot of BTVS is about deconstructing Buffy's "hero persona" as we see more and more of her character.

Every character is capable of acting not like most of goodie-two-shoes would do. Each character is capable of hate and malice, anger and danger.  each character is multilayered complex person who goes through all this terrible shit(especially Buffy) and everything that happens affects them.


And as I said in previous page, Everyone reacts to all of that in realistic fashion. Nothing gets whitewashes, excused or conveniently forgotten. Things build up, emotions build up, feelings build up, consequences, guilt and actions always matter.

 The show does not classify characters into "he is good and now he is evil and now he is good" like TVD does. Everyone has many faces, and especially Buffy.

Thats one of MAJOR POINTS I LOVE of BTVS. 

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What do you think about what i wrote about bonnie ?
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I disagree with implication of bonnie being realistic.


There's a difference between realistic character and judgy character.  To be exact, Bonnie is Elena on caffeine withdrawal.  While she reacts MORE than other chracters, she does not react like realistic human. She reacts when and how Writers want her to. I'd say partially because of that, partially because how character interactions are treated in TVD, Bonnie feels very...all over the place in a jumbled mess of a sense.


The last realistic stuff was her reaction to Gram[ps death(the followup of which we never got to see as they put Bonnie in the closeet till finale, TVD style). AFter that...she is just someone who comes in does stuff and judges people. and then disappears off the map. 

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Yes she is judgy, but what i meant mostly was that she seems to be the only one that doesn't forgive so easily ( like elena and jeremy ).
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She doe snot need to forgive. Her point of character is to come in and say "YOU ARE BAD GUY". and then leave. Thats just more aggresive version of Elena's "YOU ARE WRONG" stuff.


For a character to be realistic, she would have had to have focus so we understand WHY and WHAT she says.


Now its like the random guy in the episode would come into front screen and say to damon " you did bad stuff there!" after which, that extra would leave and not be seen again till few episodes latter.


Bonnie does not forgive, because its not her purpose.There's no character basis behind it all, no substance behind her judgyness.


We could get on why Buffy would search every second on how to diminish faith in everyone's eyes and how to get an excuse to hurt her(and vice versa). we understood Giles more angry reactions to Xander and why they are like that. we also understood why and how the characters would call buffy out on her bullshit.


Whedon did it in the ways which felt real.


With BOnnie, its done purely so they could have some internal tension for few seconds and for someone tobe against salvatore brothers for a second and NOT because its what Bonnie would do if this was real life.


The second writers think its good fo rthe plot for bonnie to suddenly forget all judgyness and be bffs with damon, that will happen.



Thats the difference. 

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Vampire Diaries Quotes

You want a love that consumes you. You want passion and adventure, and even a little danger... I want you to get everything you're looking for. But for right now, I want you to forget that this happened. Can't have people knowing I'm in town yet. Goodnight, Elena.


Damon: You know what they are? Children. Like lighting a candle's going to make everything OK, or even saying a prayer. Or pretending Elena's not going to end up just like the rest of us murdering vampires. Stupid, delusional, exasperating little children. And I know what you're going to say: 'It makes them feel better, Damon.' So what? For how long? A minute, a day? What difference does it make? Because in the end, when you lose somebody, every candle, every prayer is not going to make up for the fact that the only thing you have left is hole in your life where that somebody that you cared about used to be. And a rock with a birthday carved into it that I'm pretty sure is wrong. So thanks, friend. Thanks for leaving me here to babysit. Because I should be long gone by now. I didn't get the girl, remember? I'm just stuck here fighting my brother and taking care of the kids. You owe me big.
Alaric: I miss you too, buddy.