Riverdale Round Table: Are You Shipping Josie and Archie?

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Tom and Sierra got married, Josie auditioned for a spot at Juilliard, and Major Mason invited the parents back to finish their game of Gryphons and Gargoyles on Riverdale Season 3 Episode 12.

Below, TV Fanatics Becca Newton, Brandon Vieira, and Kat Pettibone debate Kevin and Moose breaking up, Major Mason's big plan to get revenge, and Ashleigh Murray's future as Josie McCoy on Riverdale.

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Kevin and Moose broke up after the mess involving Major Mason. Were you sad they ended or did you expect they wouldn't last?

Becca: Before this episode, I wouldn't have been upset, but this adventure got me invested in them, so I am sad and frustrated. Why did Riverdale squander the two and a half seasons it had to tell Kevin and Moose's story?

That they leave somewhat open for Moose to come back makes it worse because I don't want that to be an excuse to not introduce someone else for Kevin or to not give him more things.

RROC - Tall - Riverdale Season 3 Episode 12

Brandon: I didn't think they would last, but I also didn't think they would end this soon. This felt like the first episode that really featured the couple in a prominent position. For the first time since they've been paired together, I actually saw some real potential and sparks between the two.

It would have been nice to not only see their relationship evolve and develop more, but it also would have been nice to learn more about Moose. He was such an underused character, and besides being the closeted jock, there wasn't much else we knew about him.

This episode should've been the first step in exploring their relationship instead of the end. Now I worry that getting rid of Moose just means Kevin will once again be shuffled to the background.

Kat: Before this episode, I didn't really think much about what would happen to them, to be honest. They barely got any screentime and I felt little-to-no investment towards them as a couple.

With that being said, by the end of "Bizzarodale," I was truly heartbroken that they didn't get their happy ending!

Both actors' performances were lovely and heartbreaking, and after everything they went through, it felt like they deserved to be happy. But, sometimes actors get cast in new shows and we have to say goodbye. At least, for now.

Growing Connection - Tall - Riverdale Season 3 Episode 12

Gladys Jones is Hermione's Fizzle Rocks supplier and she brought Jellybean back to town. What chaos could these two have up their sleeves for Riverdale?

Becca: It looks like Gladys sees an opportunity to supplant the Lodges and take over their operations.

Related: Get Shudder via Prime Video Channels for Spine-Tingling & Provocative Films, TV Series, & Originals!

Brandon: Gladys and Jellybean could bring even more chaos to Riverdale, but unlike many others before them, they might never get caught. FP and Jughead are going to wear blinders and won't even clue in that they're up to no good.

I could see Gladys and Jellybean turning friends into foes and lovers into enemies. Perhaps they might even be the cause of another Bughead split?

Betty's always been the best at noticing something suspicious going on and it wouldn't surprise me if her suspicions turn Jughead against her. One thing's for sure though, the town of Riverdale will be putty in Gladys and Jellybean's hands.

Kat: I'm not sure what their endgame is, but taking control of the town seems to be on their to-do lists. They manipulated FP and Jughead, have the Lodges in their pocket and have now seemed to return for good.

My question is: what is it about Riverdale that makes people want to take it over so badly? What is so special about this place? What will ruling Riverdale get for Gladys?

Hopefully, we'll get answers eventually. Guesses are the bottom line is money from drug deals.

Cheryl got involved in fixing things for her loved ones. Which act of fairy godmother did you like more: her helping Kevin's love life or opening up Toni's future?

Becca: Since Cheryl's plan to help Kevin involved outing Moose, opening up Toni's future was the more likable deed between the two. While I fully support Cheryl arranging for Toni to have a college interview, Toni's increasing dependence on Cheryl is worrisome.

Also, I don't care if Hot Topic needs new Riverdale-themed merchandise; the last thing this show needs is more gangs.

Kevin: Well, there’s this guy and we’ve been having problems...
Cheryl: Moose, you mean?
[Kevin is stunned]
Cheryl: Please, I have eyes. I saw you lounging together at my pool party looking like a community theater production of the Talented Mr. Ripley. The Moose ship has been trouble from the gay get-go. Maybe it’s time you move on?
Kevin: I can’t go back to Fox Forest.
Cheryl: Oh, sullen tender-hearted Kevin. I’m not talking about cruising, I’m talking about Bumble.

Brandon: She wasn't exactly a fairy godmother in my opinion. Before she saved the day, she did some pretty awful stuff.

First, she got Toni kicked out of the Serpents and then she outed Moose, which is never cool. Cheryl had a lot of making up to do, and I think she should've stayed out of Kevin's love life besides giving him the idea of the bunker.

After everything Toni's sacrificed and done for Cheryl, it was high time Cheryl returned the favor. It probably would've been better if Cheryl convinced Jughead to allow Toni to come back to the Serpents sans Cheryl, but I guess this new gang is an okay consolation prize.

Kat: Definitely her opening up Toni's future. First of all, I was thrilled to see Toni really step up and put Cheryl in her place. Cheryl has gone through some growth since we met her on Riverdale Season 1 Episode 1, but she can still be all types of problematic.

It was refreshing to see her be so selfless for the one she loves, even though "giving up your interview spot for someone else" is in no way how college interviews work.

Maybe she meant well with Kevin, but she was so misguided. She literally outed Moose! That's not only thoughtless and ignorant, it's also dangerous, especially in Moose's case.

I know she apologized and realized the error of her ways, but as someone who has a homophobic mother herself (not to mention struggling with her own sexual identity), it was seriously disappointing that she took liberties on spilling Moose's secret.

It all worked out in the end, but honestly, I felt like she got off a little too easy there.

Wedding Plans - Tall - Riverdale Season 3 Episode 12

Josie and Archie kissed! Are you shipping this relationship or did you set sail in the other direction?

Becca: In a vacuum, I'm good with Josie/Archie. Like I wrote when we discussed Veronica and Reggie getting together, I'm glad to see the relationship is based on something more than just love at first sight.

However, there is some baggage preventing from fully jumping aboard.

One, even we didn't get to witness it, the two Josie/Sweet Pea scenes we got was enough to make me wish we had gotten to see more of their relationship. And, my heart did go out to Sweet Pea when he broke things off.

Second is the Archie part of the equation.

It's hard for me to invest any energy into shipping Archie with anyone because he moves so fast from one relationship or flirtation to the next. It comes across as Archie being in love with the idea of love and desperately needing the validation of a relationship as opposed to him having an actual romantic connection with someone.

I wish the writers would allow Archie the time to reflect and learn from his past relationships before pushing him into the next one.

Josie: I know I'm biased, Archie, but I think I killed that audition. I sang my heart out ... and it still wasn’t enough.
Archie: Then they’re crazy! They don’t deserve you.
Josie: I’ve given so much to this and all along I’ve been saying, “It’s okay. It’ll be worth it.” I’ve built up so many walls to focus on this one thing, and now ... I don’t know what I’m gonna do. And I’m alone.
Archie: Hey, you’re not alone.
Josie: I am. I can’t even get a date to my mom’s wedding and that speaks volumes.

Brandon: I need to see them together more before I can decide how I really feel about this pairing. I was hoping to finally see Archie and Betty, but the show has become so attached to Bughead that the chances of the ship ever happening seem less and less likely.

As of right now, the Josie and Archie pairing comes across a little random. They never had a romantic connection until now, so having them become intimate so fast seems a bit premature.

I'm going to give them a chance, but I don't have high expectations for this ship.

Related: Riverdale Season 3 Episode 12 Review: Bizzarodale

Kat: I AM SO HERE FOR THIS! Listen, my heart will always be in the Betty and Archie camp (just being honest here), but this is definitely my favorite Archie relationship arc to date.

I still think it's a little bit too rushed (as is everything else on Riverdale) and would have liked them to develop a bit slower. However, I love the premise.

It feels organic to the story: Archie was in a dark place and needed someone new to help him find his way back. Josie was also feeling alone after alienating people from her life. Archie was there for her, as well. They're bonding and healing through music (and one another). It works.

Plus, that kiss? So adorable. It was so soft, so well lit, the chemistry was magnetic, and we stan a man who asks for consent before kissing someone.

An Ultimatum - Tall - Riverdale Season 3 Episode 12

Major Mason was revealed to be the one who brought the Midnight Club together this week and plotted to separate Moose/Kevin. Share your thoughts on his master plan.

Becca: Putting aside the horror, tragedy, and motive (seriously, Riverdale needs to stop revealing that the parents of the teen couples had some sort of romantic past with each other), I am liking how the copycat Gargoyle Kings and Gargoyles are popping out of the woodwork.

It supports what I like best about the Gargoyle King as a villain: namely that they don't have to constantly manipulate people to get them to do his bidding. Even though they had no involvement in Major Mason's plan, I'm sure it still benefits the Gargoyle King somehow.

Hermione: We’re not really taking this seriously, are we?
Tom: I think we have to assume this is real for our kids’ sake.
Hermione: And then what? We’re just supposed to leave them home alone all night while we run around pretending to be teenagers again?
Alice: May I remind you what happened last Ascension Night? Someone ended up dead!
Penelope: We don’t have any choice in the matter. We all know why this is happening again ... and now. Two members of the original Midnight Club are daring to get married, to be happy. And the Gargoyle King, whoever and whatever he is, wants to destroy that. He is a vicious and petty god, and if we don’t finish the game now, the Gargoyle King is never going to leave us alone.

Brandon: Why are the parents of Riverdale so messed up? I'll admit it was a plot twist I didn't see coming, which is always a good thing. Bit, his use of the Gargoyle King following Tall Boy's use of the figure made me less excited for the eventual reveal of the real Gargoyle King.

Also, why didn't Tom Keller ever share with anyone what happened between him and Major Mason? Clearly, the dude was messed up and this whole psychotic break he had could've been prevented if Tom told someone.

Hopefully, the next Gargoyle King reveal is actually the legitimate King and not another trick.

Kat: Definitely a twist I didn't see coming! I audibly gasped when he was revealed as the Gargoyle King, and although I'm not a huge fan of the multiple fake out trope Riverdale is so fond of, this one worked for me.

Tall Boy was boring and recycled, but this actually frightened me a little bit. He may be Moose's dad, but a man who has become so twisted from his own repressed sexuality is actually willing to threaten and put his son's life in danger.

That's genuinely scary to me, and I thought Riverdale addressed the topic very well. It was nice to have a reveal rooted in real-life issues rather than something wild and over-the-top campy.

Back To The Beginning - Tall - Riverdale Season 3 Episode 12

Ashleigh Murray (aka. Josie McCoy) is currently attached to the Katy Keene pilot. Are you excited for her potential new role with Josie? Will you miss her on Riverdale?

Becca: Both. I will miss her more for what should have been instead of what was. I wish she had gotten more storylines and screentime. Her split with the Pussycats could've been handled in a more interesting manner. Not only would I have liked to see them reunited, but I would have also liked seeing more characters from the Josie mythos incorporated onto Riverdale.

Her friendships with Veronica and Cheryl could have been explored more. It's a shame she never had a storyline with Betty or that she and Jughead were never given an opportunity to bond over having fathers with substance abuse issues.

If the Katy Keene spinoff delivers on giving Josie more time in the spotlight, then it's the best thing for both the actress and the character.

Brandon: Up until now, Josie wasn't doing a whole lot in Riverdale, so a role on Katy Keene would be a great opportunity for both the actress and character. She could finally be further explored instead of just being the random musician who sings at parties.

The only downside is that this announcement came at the same time as Josie and Archie's big kiss. Her being paired with Archie means she actually started to get some spotlight, and if the pairing ends up being a really good one, it'll be a shame knowing they won't get a fair shot due to her attachment to Katy Keene.

Related: Riverdale: Ashleigh Murray Joins Katey Keene Pilot

Kat: Of course, I'll miss her on Riverdale, especially now that we've been given some backstory and the writers have added depth to her character. Unfortunately, it took three seasons for that to happen, and chances are she'll go back to being underused on the show.

Hopefully, jumping to Katy Keene will put Josie front and center, and we'll be able to enjoy her character more.

I'm also disappointed to know her romance with Archie will be short-lived, but Josie shouldn't need a romantic subplot in order to gain some screentime. It wouldn't hurt Archie to spend some time as a single man, so I think it will all work out for the best.

Missed the latest episode of Riverdale? You can watch Riverdale online via TV Fanatic. Come back here and join the discussion.

Justin Carreiro is a staff writer for TV Fanatic. Follow him on Twitter.

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Riverdale Season 3 Episode 12 Quotes

Josie: I don’t know if you’ve heard, but my mom is getting married to Kevin’s dad. And I wanted to know if you would be my date for the wedding?
Sweet Pea: As your boyfriend?
Josie: Does it have to be so official?
Sweet Pea: Josie, I like you and I would be with you, all in with you in a second. But, you sliding into my life when you don’t want to be alone ... I’m not built that way. Maybe that makes me needy, but I just ... I’ve got to get off this merry-go-round with you.

Kevin: Well, there’s this guy and we’ve been having problems...
Cheryl: Moose, you mean?
[Kevin is stunned]
Cheryl: Please, I have eyes. I saw you lounging together at my pool party looking like a community theater production of the Talented Mr. Ripley. The Moose ship has been trouble from the gay get-go. Maybe it’s time you move on?
Kevin: I can’t go back to Fox Forest.
Cheryl: Oh, sullen tender-hearted Kevin. I’m not talking about cruising, I’m talking about Bumble.