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The-mentalist

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Entwife

You bring up a really good point @KM about the validity of what the various minions have said being compromised because their minds have been tampered with. It introduces such an artifact into the hunt, it's no wonder there is such little agreement about how to make any sense of it. And, I also tend to put more credence in what people say on their death beds, but those clues, too, have been very enigmatic and empty of information. Like "Tyger, tiger." Fine. Todd Johnson's an RJ affiliate. So where does that get anyone in the hunt? Plus if the person's mind has been altered, why would that be shed on a death bed? Etc. Lorelei does seem like a special case to RJ, allowed more autonomy maybe, but still spouted RJology up until she knew he killed her sister. Set her off on a torture and killing rampage. Not a stable frame of mind, although definitely goal-directed. I really do look forward to seeing this get cleared up. I just hope it's pretty speedy. :-)

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Cont.
We could assume that any clue offered from a dying person could be true, under the idea that the dying have little to loose.

Anyway, I think the only clues that may have more truth weight, but are still suspect due to RJ's mind control, may have come from Lorelei. Her place in RJ's world was one of confidant, we can guess this because unlike other disciples her incarceration did not result in immediate termination and because of RJ's anger in learning that she shared intimacies (not physical) with Jane and turned. Hence the new rules. And, the ambiguity we feel is deliberate and part of the journey, we share it with the characters.

I hate moderation. I'm at an hour of trying now.

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My thoughts on the partnership Red John idea is mirrored by the locksmith and his wife in 'Red and Itchy', and It fits with Rationalgirl's Volker observation. So in my musings Red John is one, real person, just as the deceased locksmith was, but there are other hands involved in doing the work.

This is likely an unpopular thought, but I don't think we should be clinging to any clues as gospels of truth. An example is Rosalind Harker's description of Roy. We have no idea of how brainwashed she was or was not. I suspect she was hypnotized the last we saw her, because she was playing the piano with bloody hands. It is unlikely that she would not have felt the blood, and smelt it. We have seen how RJ altered Kristina's mind. Was Jared messed with before he left his message? Thus all clues are suspect to having been altered. Cont.

Entwife

Cont'd-----> I know Bruno has to have more planned, even though Robin has said it's going to be one long RJ arc.

I just finished the season 3 dvds and watched the special features. Enjoyed those SO MUCH! One about Simon directing, wow. But the other with professionals on serial killers, all different aspects. I'm sure everybody has seen this, but for those wrestling with RJ theories seriously, I think it merits another look, especially since Bruno says in it how everything looks like it doesn't fit and the clues aren't right, etc,. but that it's all going along to plan. True, that was 2 years ago, but it looked a mess even then. Especially when it wasn't Timothy Carter after all. Very interesting in that light. It doesn't help me pick out RJ, but I'm hopeless anyway. But it might help someone who has patience to think about it. Just my thoughts.

Entwife

I especially like what you say in your last paragraph @rationalgal. I think it would add a lot to have the audience in the know before Patrick and the CBI, very suspenseful. I don't think I could go with RJ dragging on for 10-11 episodes unknown to all and then another 8 or so while the audience knows. I will want to jump in and kill RJ myself long before then, I would be so frustrated. I guess it depends what else is going on outside of the RJ arc. I absolutely will have no patience with constant subliminal crap about is it Jane and Lisbon or is it not. No patience at all. None. I'll still dig through for what there is, but I will be growing more and more resentful if it isn't shown clearly, and long before the last episode. I'm done with that crap. And Bruno Heller will be on my blacklist forever. Cont'd----->

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It seems most people think the identity of RJ should be kept secret to the very end, but that does not seem like a good way to go for a series. It works very well for stand-alone crime of the week episodes, but a series needs something deeper. If Stiles actually is RJ I'd like to see that revealed to viewers about halfway through S6, while Jane still does not know. If the audience knows who RJ is, we can be kept on the edge of our seats watching Jane inadvertently endanger himself or Lisbon or others, RJ coming close to winning, and Jane and Lisbon figuring it all out in the last episode after keeping viewers on edge, knowing what we know, for the final 2 or 3 episodes. But we will get what the writers think we should get and they may surprise us.

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Another thing I got from Wine and Roses was that Volker is a serial killer who has others do the killing while he watches. That might be the writers telling us to think of RJ as more than one person in the sense that he relies on others to help him kill, perhaps finding it more of a turn-on to watch than to do it. (Jared's bloody "He is ma[ny]" HAS to mean something!) I always thought the Volker arc was a strange interpolation in the overall plot, so that may be why it was there - along with starting to show Lisbon in more of a take-charge role and developing a solid partnership with Jane of course. And Volker, if he was not shown as a serial killer, would certainly be considered charming, just as Stiles is shown to us. I just don't see how a credible RJ can be constructed out of any other character except possibly Kirkland, and then perhaps only if he is a Jekyl-Hyde type. We shall see.

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Hafner could be RJ because he has a sneaky vibe and is involved with Visualize, which is important. I tend to discount him because RJ is smart in the same way Jane is. That's why he defeats every plan Jane has to catch him. Hafner was no match for Jane when Jane plotted to get his team back after his murder trial. Jane outsmarted him brilliantly. Because of that Hafner no doubt would love to get back at Jane and may be involved through Visualize in helping RJ do that. Stiles is the only one with the RJ type of smarts needed to spar with Jane (tho Kirkland may, but we don't know enuf about him yet). Age means nothing if Stiles has others such as Partridge and minions to "wield the knife" (Jane SAID Stiles never does that himself). But Stiles is so personable that viewers may not want him to be RJ. Well, Heller said viewers might be disappointed. Killers have often been charming.

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hi Entwife, yes it feels like eternity!! we have to stay busy!!lol

Entwife

@Rainman and @all I'm pretty much in the Haffner ballpark myself, although I feel he's still a pretty weak choice for Red John. But I like the way you've reasoned it out, Rainman, it's as good as any right now. Hopefully Heller will give us a lot more to work with since the hunt will really be on next season. The field has been way too wide open for me to function in my already weak whodunit abilities. The seven names helps a little, but not a lot because some of the choices are so far-fetched and no one really seems right with what we know. The weak field @KM & @rationalgal almost forces us to consider there is more than one RJ. I hope not, makes it MUCH less interesting to me.

Hi @Mimi!! Less than 90 days to the start of season six. Oh, joy. *splat*




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