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in responce to marisa, no i highly doubt that nathan would even go back to the 50's let alone exactly three months later. now what is possible is that when james was born and was given to the cogans, they may have given him a diferent "birthdate" so that he couldnt be traced back to sarah and vice versa. however with this series and with the city of haven both of which to think about, anything is possible, im just stating the possibilities with what i already know. but anything is posible.

Sue-ann

***TWO***

Sue-ann

THREE

@ osofine A further advantage to registering and filling out a profile is that you will be able to send and receive emails through this website when you wish to continue a personal discussion with only one person, about some series or episode, without making your comments public. Your "Inbox" notification for this web site is at the top right when you have signed on. It will also enable you to comment personally to the reviewers, rather than publicly, if you wish to do that for whatever reason.

Sue-ann

@ osofine You can do what I do -- copy your original post, and post it. Then when the first part is posted, paste it to the "Leave a Comment" box and delete what has already been posted. Copy that again, and post it. If you still have some left over, which I sometimes do when an episode is worth discussing in depth, then paste it again, delete what has posted, and post again. I add the words "TWO" and "THREE", etc, to subsequent posts, in case another individual posts in between parts of my comments.

Another way to get your comment saved in its entirety, and accessible, is to register. Your name will then appear in hot link blue, with or without an icon like mine. Clicking on that will take you or anyone to a complete list of comments made by that individual. And that includes the part which their character count has truncated. I really hope you choose option 2. Your comments are fascinating.

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It was only while watching for the second time (after reading this review and comments I wanted to see the scenes with Sarah and Nathan again) that I realized that part of his happy, wide-eyed look at her right after that (and why he even allowed her to hold onto his ear for so long) was because it actually hurt him - he was so happy to just feel anything, even if it was the feeling of having his ear practically ripped off, lol! This does highlight a slightly un-romantic aspect of Nathan's feelings for Audrey/Sarah - they have less to do with Audrey or Sarah's personalities and more with sheer physical attraction. People keep commenting that he liked Sarah more than he's liked Audrey in a while because "Sarah was less jaded and cynical" (paraphrase), but I think it may have more to do with the fact that Sarah was far more willing to be physical with him than Audrey. Food for thought. [I really wish this system would warn one that a character limitation has been reached rather than just truncating comments...]

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The whole thing was also a predestination paradox and fulfills the Novikov self-consistency principle (see my earlier comment about the doubloon). Before he went back in time Duke not only had the obituary that said that Sarah killed Roy, had Roy's diary that had "Stuart Mosely" written in it and Roy didn't make that last entry until after Duke saved him twice (and may have written more on that page if Duke hadn't interrupted him). I think that was pretty clear to the characters by the end of the episode, but I though it was worth noting.

When Sarah first meets Nathan, she grabs him by the ear and pulls him all the way out of the hospital. It was only while watching for the second time that I realized that part of his happy, wide-eyed look at her right after that (and why he even allowed her to hold onto his ear for so long) was because it actually hurt him - he was so happy to just feel anything, even if it was the feeling of having his ear practically ripped off, lol! This does highlight a slightly un-romantic aspect of Nathan's feelings for Audrey/Sarah - they have less to do with Audrey or Sarah's personalities and more with sheer physical attraction. People keep commenting that he liked Sarah more than he's liked Audrey in a while because "Sarah was less jaded and cynical" (paraphrase), but I think it may have more to do with the fact that Sarah was far more willing to be physical with him than Audrey. Food for thought.

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The gold doubloon (coin) was an ontological paradox (also called a "bootstrap paradox"). Where did it come from originally? It is caught in a time loop and has no origin.

I enjoyed the episode, but I wished that the writers had used the opportunity to reveal more aspects of the plot or solve mysteries. I felt like the chance to see Chief Wuornos again was kind of wasted - I wish Audrey had asked him some questions since it's unlikely that anyone would ever have the chance to talk to him again! (I suppose that since it was such an altered timeline, that version of Chief Wuornos might not have information that applied to the regular timeline or have incorrect information that would be confusing, but still....) I thought that Nathan releasing that Guard member from jail was incredibly stupid and hypocritical considering that he had just chastised Duke about changing history - why didn't he just question him in his cell?

I thought it was pretty compelling that if Duke's grandfather had lived, Dave would have killed Vince. I'd like to know more about that! (I haven't checked the Twitter thing in a while, but I haven't found it that revealing in the past.) I really hope we finally get some answers in these final episodes and leave the TotW (Troubled of the Week) stories behind. This episode was more about the overall mythology of the show yet it didn't reveal very much at all... Still, it was fun to watch!

Marisa1983

Also, it makes sense that the Teagues brothers kept secrets about the past knowing that Nathan and Duke would go back. It seems like the writers always knew exactly where they would go with the story, because so far everything seems to make sense.

Marisa1983

I too, was sad when I saw that Duke couldn't save his grandfather. But this proves that everything was supposed to happen, the guys traveling and Duke saving his grandfather twice, giving him the gold coin. Even Sarah killing Duke's grandfather, the only reason she did was because Duke told his grandfather she was the one who would kill him, he decided to kill her instead and she defended herself. None of this would have happened if the guys didn't go back in time. Did anyone notice the expression on Howard after Audrey left. He knew exactly what had happened, because in the past they told him that he was the one who sent them there. This whole time-traveling was done amazingly and I hope Jon isn't right about the date of birth of the Colorado Kid. I really want him to be the father. Maybe Nathan went back in time again 3 months after that?

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listen as much as i would love to see that nathan is the colorodo kid's father, and whether or not more did happen than we actually did see in the episode, the day that this episode took place was august 16, 1955. the colorodo kid (james cogan) was supposively born on august 31, 1956. this means that sarah would have had to of been pregnant for over a year. i found his suposed birthday towards the end of the episode called "Real Estate". now this could be that august 31, 1956 wasnt his real birthday, but dont get too excited about this, there is still a long ways to go. by the way i love this show and that is without a shadow of a doubt the best episode i have seen of haven, and that is saying something!




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